The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Thread

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The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Thread

Postby jerzybondov » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:31 am

For those who find their way here from google as opposed to the DeLorean nerds like me, some exposition:

The DeLorean was criticised by contemporary press for being too slow. This was in large part due to the emissions requirements of the ‘malaise’ era in America in the late 70s/early 80s. For context, the ‘muscle car’ Corvette at the time put out 190bhp, and a Porsche 911 170bhp.

The PRV engine chosen by DeLorean to power his car put out 150-160bhp in other European installations (i.e. competitive), but in the federalised spec that was homologised for US emissions regs (catalyst and lambda system, lower compression, restricted fuelling) only put out 130bhp. When combined with heavy design features like gullwing doors and stainless panels, this added up to a relatively slow car for the segment it was competing in.

Performance figures from the 1981 issue of Car and Driver: (https://www.entermyworld.com/articles/car-and-driver/)

Chevrolette Corvette: 0-60 - 7.2 secs (1/4 mile - 15.4@91mph)
Ferrari 308 GTS: 0-60 - 7.6 secs (1/4 mile - 15.6@89mph)
Porsche 911 SC: 0-60 - 6.3 secs (1/4 mile - 14.7@94mph)
DeLorean: 0-60 - 9.5 secs (1/4 mile - 17.0@79mph)

Performance figures from the 1981 issue of Motor Trend (perhaps worse testing conditions, hence the slower figures all round - https://www.entermyworld.com/cat/articl ... 81e1x1.jpg):

Chevrolette Corvette: 0-60 - 8.25 secs (1/4 mile - 16.5@83mph)
Ferrari Mondial: 0-60 - 8.20 secs (1/4 mile - 16.3@84mph)
Maserati Merak: 0-60 - 9.39 secs (1/4 mile - 16.9@83mph)
Porsche 928: 0-60 - 7.38 secs (1/4 mile - 15.8@86mph)
DeLorean 0-60 - 9.98 secs (1/4 mile - 17.6@77mph)

But how would the DeLorean have compared had it been released in Europe? That is what this thread is about.

The OE/federal spec engine fitted to the DeLorean is termed the B28F. The European version of the engine, fitted to everything from the Renault 30 to the Volvo 760 (the most common donor car) is termed the B28E.

American owners who have timed their cars over the quarter mile have seen times in the mid 17s - so these contemporary road tests seem to be broadly on the money.

How does a full euro spec car compare? What might a 1984 UK spec DeLorean have done a 1/4 mile and 0-60 in, and how would that compare to its European competition at the time? Let’s find out.
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Re: The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Threa

Postby jerzybondov » Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:08 am

On 19th June 2022 I went to the Santa Pod retro show to finally get some decent performance figures for my car. It's had a recent full ignition service (new plugs, HT leads, rotor and cap etc), has had timing and mixture set up correctly and is running perfectly. Conditions on the day were good, no headwind, temperature 20C (dropped towards the end of the day, leading to quicker times).

Car has a Volvo 760 B28E, running open loop with a stainless free flow exhaust. Book for the Volvo engine is 154bhp, but with the exhaust and modern plugs it's perhaps around putting out 160bhp. I've previously dyno'd the car at 160bhp, but that was with a fast cam set up that was running horribly, so not indicative of current spec.

Car had about 2/3 tank of fuel - so not ideal, I compensated by removing the passenger seat (10ish kg), so the weight of the car would be about the same as with 1/3 tank of fuel.

It took quite a few runs to get the launch and gear changes optimal. Here's what I've learned gives the best times:

- Rev the car to 6000rpm / RED LINE (yes really) when staged. Then dump the clutch. Anything else leads to bogging in first gear. There's still no wheel-spin.
- Change gear at 6200rpm. Anything shorter leads to slower times. This may not be the case with a federal spec car where shorter shifting may be desirable.
- Leave in 3rd gear till crossing the 1/4 mile line.

Previous fastest times at Santa Pod (to my knowledge) were Dan's car in 2010 (B28F/B28E hybrid with de-cat, volvo fuelling, volvo ignition dizzy and free flow exhaust) - 16.26 @ 83mph, and my car in 2015 off a single run - 16.19 @84mph.

My goal here was to *finally* crack the 16 second barrier. The day started off with a bunch of 16.3s and 16.4s and I was disheartened. I experimented with the launch and gear changes, the temperature dropped and I was finally running under 16.1. Runs 9, 10 and 11 were:

16.05
16.03
16.01

FFS!!

And then finally on the next run...

Reaction 0.53
60ft 2.18
330ft 6.53
1/8 ET 10.16
1/8 MPH 67.07
1/4 ET 15.997
1/4 MPH 85.06


The 16 second barrier is finally broken - and we have the UK's first sub 16 second DeLorean.

I'm not saying my car is the fastest in the country - Dan K's polished heads will go faster than this, as will any other turbo'd cars that actually work (I'm not sure if there are any?) but this is an excellent base to determine the extra performance of euro-spec. What can we infer about a 0-60 time from this? :think:

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Re: The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Threa

Postby jerzybondov » Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:20 am

The best way of determining 0-60 is to compare the 1/4 mile and end speed times with other cars that have had both recorded - so let's see what's out there.

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Looking at this list, my time corresponds most closely with the Lamborghini LM002 and Porsche 924, so perhaps from this - especially given how good the rear engine launch is on the DeLorean, we could infer a 7.8 second 0-60 time.

And how does that compare with what else was out there at the time?

Well, a 1985 BMW 635CSI was 8.3 0-60 and 16.3 1/4 mile.

1982 Audi Quattro was 7.8 0-60 and 15.8 1/4 mile.

And compare it to the times in the first post - pretty competitive.

Now for some pics....
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Re: The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Threa

Postby jerzybondov » Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:26 am

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Re: The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Threa

Postby jerzybondov » Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:28 am

This one is interesting - look at the degree of front end lift once you dump the clutch!

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Re: The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Threa

Postby A Van » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:44 pm

Nice post Gez, very informative
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Re: The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Threa

Postby cis6409 » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:06 pm

Great post Jez, love that look on the last pic when you dump the clutch!
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Re: The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Threa

Postby jerzybondov » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:45 pm

Not many cars sit on their arse like that when they take off :lol:
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Re: The Definitive Euro vs OE/federal spec Performance Threa

Postby jerzybondov » Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:55 am

Realised I never actually gave a proper VS stat-off in my initial flurry of posts, so here we go.

Stock (federal) DeLorean figures:

Power: 130bhp @ 5500rpm
Torque: 153 ft/lb @ 2750rpm
0-60: 9.5 secs
1/4 mile: 17.0 @ 77mph
Top speed: 120 mph

Euro-spec DeLorean figures:

Power: 160bhp @ 5700rpm
Torque: 173 ft/lb @ 3000rpm
0-60: 7.8 secs
1/4 mile: 15.99 @ 85mph
Top speed: 130+ mph

One small note on the top speed of the euro-spec... see this thread on the contemporary trial for euro-spec models: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=905&p=9033&hilit=+euro+spec+tyres#p9033

The factory expected the car to have a top speed in excess of 210kmh / 131mph, however they found that it didn't. Some confounding factors - did the trial car have a shortened final drive as was to be the spec for europe? Was it a manual / auto?

A number of owners with B28F/E hybrids have reached GPS speeds in excess of 130mph in Germany on the autobahn (Arran I believe was the fastest).

I have reached 5150rpm in 5th in my car (down a bit of a hill) on the French autoroute - which according to the manual is 5.15 x 26.67 = 137mph

And this year in Germany, up a hill, into a headwind, reached 127mph on GPS.

So somewhere in the region of 130-135mph for top speed seems about right. Most of us of course still only have T rated tyres (118mph), but this is for the maximum weight rating of the tyre, which the DeLorean gets nowhere near. And how long are you realistically going to be doing 130mph for anyway? So this isn't a convincing reason to spend £300 a corner on ancient Pirelli P600s IMO!
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